RV electrical failure

Our RV electrical failure led to a surprising discovery.

We had an RV electrical failure, this time self-induced. My failure to turn on the electricity when we had full hookups caused the failure. Of course, that isn’t the only story about the RV electrical failure; it led to a very unexpected discovery. This discovery might be bad. I don’t want to overplay the discovery until I know the extent of the issue. The RV electrical failure isn’t the only story, and this RV electrical failure is going to lead to more work. It’s just what I wanted: more work.

Battle Born Battery Bank
Our Battle-Born Batteries during installation. Yes, it is fine to install them on their sides. You could even install them upside down. This isn’t true for other batteries. Notice the insulating rubber mats under the batteries.

So there we were

We pulled into our campground (the location doesn’t change the story; it could have happened anywhere), and while setting up, I plugged in the RV but didn’t turn on the electric power. This mistake eventually caused our RV electrical failure. Most of the time, setting up is routine and involves me walking around the RV about twenty times to get everything in order. This time, however (perhaps only the third time in seven years), we were not allowed to occupy our site on arrival. This time, we arrived well before they wanted us to, and we sat for about two hours, seeing that our site was empty, but the “rules” didn’t allow us to occupy it.

Wind Warning

We arrived early because we don’t like driving our RV in high winds. The drive between campgrounds was only about 35 miles, so it was very short. We started our drive early to get ahead of the weather and arrived well before check-in time, knowing we would have to wait to occupy our site. We didn’t have any wind during our drive, and since our new campground was sheltered, we didn’t have any wind while waiting to occupy our site, after parking our RV in the site, or while setting up. Other areas, especially that afternoon and evening, had lots of wind, so the warning was warranted but not for us.

Wind Advisory
One of these wind warnings was the reason we arrived at the campground early but didn’t drive in the wind.

While waiting for our site to “open,” I did some light work around the RV. We were “invited” to occupy our site more than two hours after our arrival. The delay was silly, but we saw no reason to rush the process or give anyone grief over their silly rule. The camp host didn’t make the rule and didn’t deserve any grief from me. I guess I am venting here. I am not sure I can help fix it, nor would complaining (even to the rule maker) result in a change in the future. This fight is for someone else.

Our RV electrical system is not standard.

The above delay is my excuse for not doing a complete job while setting up. It was an oversight, and I missed this minor yet critical step. Part of the reason I missed the step is that the weather was ideal—it was not too hot or cold. Another part of my failure was that, unlike most RVs, I made a massive change to the electrical system when I installed a battery bank and solar panels to keep them charged when not plugged into shore power. Shore power is a Navy term for getting electricity from the port rather than making your own electricity.

We can run anything

Tiffin didn’t do a good job designing the electrical system to run without outside electricity, so during the battery installation, I rewired everything. Now, I can use everything (except a few items I intentionally isolated), so they wouldn’t work when using battery power.

Circuit Breaker Panel
The circuit breaker panel I rewired allows me to run (nearly) everything from my batteries. I need to open this panel again soon and retorque all these screws—more work, lucky me.

The things that don’t work in my RV are more straightforward (and easier to mention) than those that do. In my RV (and only in my RV), I can run everything other than the electric water heater and the engine heater. My only limitation is the air conditioning department; I can only run one air conditioner from the battery bank. In the past, during power outages in campgrounds, I never knew there was a problem. My RV continued to work, and we didn’t realize the campground electricity had failed.

Even though I can run anything from the battery, I can’t run everything simultaneously. Since I mentioned it, here is a link to multiple articles about my battery and solar electricity: Multiple Solar and Battery articles. These articles are grouped into a playlist about how my RV works.

All set up

I missed this critical step of not turning on the electricity before, and it isn’t the first time I have done this, but it is the first time my failure to turn on the electricity has led to an RV electrical failure. Not turning on the electricity quickly during the setup process is easy to miss when everything still works without it. I mentioned the battery does not power the water heater. The only way you would know the water heater wasn’t powered is that you wouldn’t have hot water when desired.

We have checklists

While setting up, we missed two steps in our checklist. The first one was not turning on the power. The second step we missed was not verifying that the power wasn’t on. Yes, these are numbered separate steps. To do this, after the power is turned on, we check to see if the inverter is inverting (a clear indication that the external power is not on) or charging (a clear indication that external power is on). Checking the inverter is the easiest way to know we have good external power. When we had an RV electrical failure, we lost all alternating current.

Three battery banks

I mentioned we had a total “alternating current” RV electrical failure. However, we still had a fully functional direct current electrical system with its independent battery. I explained the system in other posts, but I have three battery systems in the RV. This link includes a description of my system design. Hybrid Mongrel Battery

First, I have the chassis battery, which only starts the engine. I also have an 800 amp-hour lithium battery bank that operates the alternating current systems and is connected to the inverter/converter and solar array.

I also have an additional battery that only supplies the direct current part of the electrical system. This battery is charged from the 800 amp-hour battery, and even if the 800 amp-hour battery fails, this battery keeps the lights on, and from this battery, I can start the generator. Here is another article that updates the Hybrid Mongrel Battery article. Can one lithium battery replace four lead-acid batteries?

So there we were

Usually, “so there we were” starts a flying story among pilots. This case describes how we were operating the RV that first evening, thinking the external power was doing all the work and not realizing that we were operating only on battery power. Tami did some laundry (the electric dryer uses lots of electricity to run). It was colder than a typical evening, so our electrical space heaters were on, which also uses lots of electricity. Other than that, life was unremarkable. How is that for a benign flying story? All “there-we-were” stories start with a benign setting. There we sat, and everything was normal. Cue scary music.

Cell Phone Jammer / Space Heater
We use a plug-in space heater to keep the RV warm and, in this case, to run down our batteries.

RV electrical failure at 1 a.m.

I didn’t know we had an RV electrical failure until I woke at 1 a.m. We didn’t have alternating current power, and I didn’t know why. Some people have trouble sleeping because of this or that. I monitor my RV for random failures while sleeping. Tonight’s random failure was an RV electrical failure. Even if the external power had failed, we should have been able to run our RV without outside power for more than a day. Yet there we were (increased volume on scary music), with an RV electrical failure.

I started troubleshooting in the middle of the night; I wasn’t going back to sleep anyway. I thought that the inverter, external power, or battery charger part of the inverter had failed. I didn’t immediately realize I was the cause of the RV’s electrical failure. The only thing I knew was that the alternating current had failed.

Magnum Inverter Control Panel Lithium battery voltage
Magnum Inverter Control Panel Lithium reporting battery voltage from my main battery bank. In the middle of the night, the words on this monitor were “insufficient battery voltage.”

Right away, I found the inverter reporting a low battery voltage. How strange, I thought. So, I grabbed my phone for confirmation. I have at least three places to read voltage, but my phone is one of the best places. Yes, the batteries were at 10.41 volts, which isn’t enough to run the inverter. I also noted that since the previous full charge (perhaps at about 4 p.m.), I had used 665 amp hours of electricity. The consumption is also strange. I measure electrical consumption carefully. If you do not measure consumption, you are guessing. Here is a link to how I measure consumption. The RV battery monitor is the most important part.

It only took a few seconds to realize the batteries were empty. The question was, why were the batteries empty? If my batteries still had unused capacity, I would have never known I had an RV electrical failure. I thought I had had an inverter failure, but that didn’t make sense since my inverter remote control panel still worked. Could the charger part of the inverter cause the RV electrical failure? But that didn’t explain how I consumed 665 amp hours of electricity in less than 12 hours. I was confused, and I started hearing the scary music.

Battery screen capture showing 84% charge and power (minus power being currently used) at 926 watts.
The Battery screen capture shows 84% charge and power (minus power currently used) at 926 watts. Volts times amps equals watts; thus, 13.46 battery voltage multiplied by 68.76 amps equals the 926 watts consumed. When I looked at this screen during my RV electrical failure, the voltage was 10.41, and the Consumed Ah was 665.
Victron Battery Monitor SmartShunt
Victron Battery Monitor SmartShunt. This device is the heart of my monitor and tells me how many amp hours of energy I have used from the battery.

Inverter failure?

We experienced an inverter failure earlier in the year; this link includes that story. Our Canada Trip was cut short.

SeeLevel Tank Monitor AGM battery voltage
SeeLevel Tank Monitor and the typical voltage of my main battery bank. Since this photo, I have changed it to read the direct current voltage, which read 13.5 during my failure. There is no help here to diagnose the RV electrical failure.

If the inverter failed, why did the remote control panel work? And where did the 665 amp hours of battery power go? That is when I opened the Power Watchdog App on my phone. Using this App, I could remotely see some things about the power coming from the external power source (without going outside), but the app wouldn’t open. You don’t have an external power source when the app won’t open. So maybe my RV electrical system failure was caused by losing campground power. The loss of campground power didn’t explain the 665 amp hours of battery consumption.

The Power Watchdog saved my RV’s electrical system from destructive campground power a week earlier. Had the Watchdog died while saving my RV during the RV electrical failure? At that campground, the voltage was too high.

Power Watchdog

I didn’t expect to write this story or include anything about the Power Watchdog we installed on our RV, but it was one of the things I was troubleshooting in the middle of the night. The Power Watchdog is a surge protector and power analyzer that can prevent electricity from coming from an external power source, protecting the equipment in your RV and your RV from having an electrical failure caused by bad external power. It should be standard equipment on every RV.

Autoformer and power Watchdog EMS installed inside my electrical compartment.
Autoformer and Power Watchdog are installed inside my electrical compartment. After taking this picture, the compartment became more cramped, and the Watchdog now sits behind the Autoformer to the point that you almost can’t see it.

When the Power Watchdog prohibits electricity from entering your RV, the face of the unit turns red. The photo at the top of this article shows the Power Watchdog being “mad” about an RV electrical failure and working correctly to protect your RV. One of the confusing parts of middle-of-the-night troubleshooting is when the Power Watchdog is not allowing electricity to enter your RV. It is still powered, and I could connect to the App to figure out why the Watchdog was unhappy.

If it were easy to see the Watchdog, I would have noted that instead of a red face (indicating bad power) or a white face (indicating good power), the face on my Watchdog wouldn’t have any lights. During this RV electrical failure, the Watchdog App didn’t work. I didn’t know why the Watchdog App had failed during our RV electrical failure.

Power Watchdog monitor screen from my phone showing both lines working at about 1700 watts.
My phone’s Power Watchdog monitor screen shows both lines working at about 1700 watts. This power consumption is from my electric space heaters, which draw almost 14 amp hours each. Combining the two is 28 amp hours at 120 volts per hour of battery consumption. Translated to direct current, the 3400 watts of alternating current equals a draw of more than 200 amps at the battery. The math here isn’t as straightforward because the voltage decreases as you draw down a battery.

Had I looked at the Power Watchdog app during my RV electrical failure, it wouldn’t have worked because I was not getting anything from the pedestal and was drawing everything from the battery.

One week before the RV electrical failure

One week before our RV electrical failure, our Power Watchdog protected our RV from high voltage at a campground. The campground’s voltage was too high and eventually adjusted to less than 130 volts. This high voltage is dangerous but rare.

Boosting low campground voltage. Low voltage can damage your RV.
Low voltage can damage your RV. We have this volt meter installed at all times. At a glance, it can tell us about an RV electrical failure. This voltmeter is green when the voltage is good. In this case, this voltage is dangerously low. Having this volt meter inspired me to get the Power Watchdog. This screen is always green when making my own alternating current electrical power from the battery. I have included a link at the bottom if you don’t have one of these voltmeters. No, I don’t get a commission.

This is the first time we ever found a campground with high voltage. When we plugged in the RV, the Power Watchdog wouldn’t let the voltage pass because the voltage was too high. The Watchdog face was red in this case, but the Watchdog App was working. Perhaps the Power Watchdog died due to the incorrect voltage while protecting our RV during the middle of the night RV electrical failure. This turned out not to be the cause.

Troubleshooting the RV electrical failure outside

So there I was, walking through wet grass in the middle of the night, cursing my bad luck, trying to figure out an RV electrical failure. (Scary music at maximum volume.) I had considered grabbing my voltmeter, intending to check the post for correct power, but instead, I went to the plug and found that even though it was plugged in, the circuit breaker was not turned on. You already knew this because I told you right away that I was the cause of the RV’s electrical failure.

I had intended to unplug the RV before getting my volt meter, but unplugging wouldn’t have fixed anything. It would allow me to read the voltage at the pedestal. If the power at the pedestal is good, then the problem for the RV electrical failure is inside the RV. If the power at the pedestal is bad, the problem is not inside the RV. I hate troubleshooting in the middle of the night (especially when dealing with electricity with wet feet) because, like flying at night, things can go bad much faster than when troubleshooting or flying in the daytime.

To fix the RV electrical failure, all I had to do was turn on the circuit breaker. Once turned on, everything worked as if nothing had happened. Once the circuit breaker turned on, the power was transferred through the Power Watchdog and the inverter and distributed through the RV’s alternating current electrical system. By morning, the inverter charged the batteries back to full, solving the RV electrical system failure.

I went back to bed with two unanswered questions.

I still had two unanswered questions. First, during the RV electrical failure, I noted that I had consumed 665 amps of electricity. The question was how I consumed the 665 amps of electricity in less than 12 hours. I didn’t know about the load of laundry and didn’t remember that the electric space heater was running in the evening. Tami explained the consumption to me the following day.

The second question was why only 665 amps of electricity were consumed before my RV electrical failure. My batteries held 800 amps when new. Battery capacity degrades over time, but my top-of-the-line lithium batteries lost nearly 20% of their capacity in less than 4 years. This isn’t good. Without an RV electrical failure, I would never have known that my capacity was now “only” 665 amp hours.

Testing a battery bank

I haven’t done this yet, but two methods exist to test batteries in a multiple battery bank accurately. Both tests involve removing the batteries, one at a time, and testing them individually. The first test is voltage. As I write this, the voltage of my battery bank is 14.21 volts. Reading the bank voltage as a group tells me that the battery bank and charging systems are working fine, but it doesn’t tell me about the health of each battery. The second test is to individually induce a load over time and measure the actual capacity of the battery being tested.

Klein Volt AC/DC Clamp Meter
Klein Volt AC/DC Clamp Meter. I will use this multimeter to measure the voltage from each battery individually, which will be a lot of work.

So this is the surprise discovery. Do I have one dead battery in my battery bank? If this is true, I would have never known about it without the RV electrical failure and the battery’s low voltage. I still don’t know the answer to the RV electrical system failure, but at least now, I know that the RV is still working even if it isn’t 100%.

When I finish investigating the battery health associated with my RV electrical failure, I will let you know what I find out about my batteries. Something isn’t right.

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Hughes Power Watchdog Bluetooth Surge Protector with Auto Shutoff

BMV-712 Victron Battery Monitor w/shunt & temp sensor

Klein Volt AC/DC Clamp Meter

Smart Shunt Victron Energy (w/o remote display or optional temp sensor)

Dual Color Digital Voltmeter

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5 thoughts on “Our RV electrical failure led to a surprising discovery.”

  1. Similar self-induced electrical failure overnight for me as well…..except in my case I exceeded the current limit of the circuit breaker which supplies my inverter by drawing too much current while plugged into 50A shore power!

    The pedestal provided 50A just fine, however, I forgot that the electric space heater was adding to the current draw which my charging load was demanding….so because I didn’t scale down the charging current, the combination caused my 30A circuit breaker to pop and shifted the space heater to an inverter load instead.

    My wake up came at closer to 2:00 AM….reset the C/B, reprogrammed the charger to a lower rate, adjusted the space heater to a lower current setting and went back to bed!

  2. Ugh!   You made me laugh t the ‘monitoring the rv while sleeping’.   We have 800 amp hours of lithium…but unlike you and Tami, we didn’t have anything ‘rewired’…so my induction cooktop, which only runs on shore power, would have tipped me off pretty quickly.  Oh…and one particular lamp, which seems to share a circuit with the fridge, and flickers annoyingly when we are on battery!

  3. Scott. I have multiple batteries in two banks, with a parallel wiring scheme on one.

    I would use the batteries without shore power charging to deplete them to 12.7v, then disconnect the batteries to a singular state and allow them to simply sit idle for 24 hours and then check the voltage of each.

    The weakest link(s) should be revealed. You may well learn that your overall capacity has simply deteriorated.

    All the best. Brian

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