Dealer’s estimate for the repair was over TEN THOUSAND dollars. Our car quit when I was accelerating onto the highway. At this price, you might assume the engine failed and they wanted to replace it. Nope, that is not the answer. The engine was still running when our car quit on the side of the highway.
RVing across the southwest states without our tow car
Now we are RVing without our tow car. We had never done this before. When our car quit, we had only a few options. We could tow our car behind our RV, but what if it wouldn’t move once we got to our campground? With my broken elbow, I didn’t want to push our car into a parking spot. We didn’t want to pull a non-functional vehicle across the southwest — hoping to repair it along the way. I have been second-guessing this decision for the last two weeks.
About that RV trip we are on
After crossing the Mojave Desert at about 100 degrees, we made two stops along the Colorado River before we finally found some cool weather in Williams, Arizona. After that, we turned north and camped along the south rim of the Grand Canyon for four nights. Although securing reservations at the Grand Canyon proved challenging, tickets to our next destination were almost impossible to get. We are going to the Albuquerque Balloon Fiesta. We got lucky in January (2025) and picked up a nice place to park at the Balloon Fiesta. (Really, we are parked in a large dirt lot just north of the launch field.) This trip wouldn’t wait for our car repair after our car quit.
After staying at the Balloon Fiesta, we will head back across the desert to Southern California, where our car is parked.
Can I fix it myself?
Since our failure, I have made it my priority to learn everything about why our car quit and how to fix it; however, I didn’t know as much about the subject when our car quit as I do now. Can I fix it myself? I believe the odds are in my favor by more than 80%. Can I ever trust it to work correctly every time? Good question, as for Tami, she said she isn’t going anywhere in the car without me again. So you can guess Tami’s answer to the question about trusting it.
The engine was still running.
After our car quit, the engine was still running while I sat on the side of the road waiting three hours for the tow truck. Our car quit on Friday morning at approximately 10:00 a.m. This failure suddenly became my entire plan for the day. Unlike the previous time when our car quit, because I was on the side of the road and not blocking traffic, I didn’t turn it off and then try to restart it and get going. Instead, I wanted the dealer to see the car, with the engine running, yet unable to move.
Thankfully, the engine was still running when I was sitting on the side of the road, waiting for the tow truck, because I could keep the air conditioner on. This time, because it was still running at idle RPM, we could determine why our car quit.
Not the first time
The first time we had this problem was nine months earlier. While accelerating from a stoplight, our car suddenly stopped accelerating and rolled to a stop. In December, when our car quit, I was stopped in the traffic lane.
The location where our car quit in December was about the same place as when our car quit in September. I was about a quarter of a mile from the RV when our car quit and rolled to a stop next to the highway. In December, I was in the traffic lanes, and multiple vehicles honked because I was blocking traffic. No one stopped to help or even push me off the side of the road. I didn’t get any help from these lovely people.
So, when our car quit in December, I turned it off and restarted it multiple times. Each time, after the engine turned on, I tried to accelerate to get down the road or at least off to the side of the road. It worked, and I was able to drive back to our RV and deliver the pizza in time for the party. But I still didn’t know why our car quit.
When Tami was driving
When Tami was driving, she too had problems, but at least for her, she didn’t end up on the side of the road. She described that as she pushed the accelerator pedal, the acceleration wasn’t smooth, and the car seemed to hesitate.
When our car quit in December
My memory of nine months ago in December isn’t as clear as my memory of the car problem in September, so I may not have all the facts perfectly sorted. “Sorted” is a term I picked up in London; the English are particularly fond of sorting things. However, to make it brief, I took it to the same dealer (both in December and nine months later) and described the issue. In September, I had proof of why our car quit.
The result of this dealer visit in December is that the computer controlling and monitoring the car didn’t have any record of my car having any problems. At the dealership, they wouldn’t fix it without the computer telling them what needed to be fixed. To figure out the issue, the service manager drove my car, as if it were his own, for the next few days, trying to locate the problem. While we were without our car, they provided us with a loaner car. I paid the diagnostic fee even though the diagnosis was that they didn’t know what was wrong. At least they didn’t charge me for the loaner car.
Between December and September
Between December and September, I replaced the battery, which was getting weak. I did this before our trip to Europe, even the old one was “good enough.” I wanted it to be as good as it gets, so I replaced it early. When I replaced the battery, it was testing at 440 cold cranking amps, whereas a new battery typically tests at 640 cold cranking amps. Usually, I don’t replace anything until it (completely) fails, so this battery replacement wasn’t my usual method. Tami really isn’t on board with my usual repair methods. At least she isn’t of the mind that when our car quits, it needs to be replaced.
As part of my battery replacement, I utilized a solar panel to keep the new battery charged during our four-month trip to Europe. That worked great. Here is a link to that article. Are small solar panels useful?
I thought that perhaps the battery might be related to our problem. A low battery voltage can confuse the computer, resulting in incorrect decisions and abnormal vehicle operation. I didn’t have any proof that the battery was the issue, but when dealing with an intermittent problem, and the problem resolves after a related action, I tend to congratulate myself and stop trying to fix the problem that goes away.
Not the transmission
I assume that you also correctly concluded that our transmission was not the problem when our car quit, and that the ten-thousand-dollar estimate was not for the replacement of our transmission or engine. What else could cost $10,000?
About our Subaru
The reason we own a 2016 Subaru is that it has a manual transmission and is one of the few cars we can tow behind our RV with all four wheels on the ground. Our car also serves as an extra self-propelled storage space and home for our kayaks.
Since our vehicle carries most of our adventure gear, I sometimes refer to it as a mule. The list of towable cars gets smaller every year, primarily because automatic transmissions fail to receive proper lubrication when the vehicle is in neutral while being towed. The wheels need to spin without ruining the transmission. Here is a link about towing our Subaru behind our RV. How to tow a car behind an RV
Not our Vehicle Control Unit
The Vehicle Control Unit is the main car computer that makes decisions about how the car operates. It also monitors for faults. Our Vehicle Control Unit is still functioning and is not the source of our car’s problem; however, it is the reason our car quit on the side of the road. The Vehicle Control Unit stopped sending accelerator commands to the throttle when our car quit.
We do not need a new Vehicle Control Unit, even though it would no longer allow the throttle to open, thereby preventing us from accelerating. Replacing the computer is expensive, but replacing our Vehicle Control Unit will not solve our problem. When our car quit, the Vehicle Control Unit was doing exactly what it was programmed to do. Regarding this failure, I’m not satisfied with the programming; however, the fact is that the Vehicle Control Unit is functioning correctly and doesn’t require replacement.
The list of expensive items is getting shorter. Our problem is not our Engine, Transmission, or Vehicle Control Unit. What else could cost $10,000 to fix?
At the repair shop
So, after our car quit in December (and because they had always treated me fairly up until then), I called a tow truck. On the way to the shop, I kept the car running. I wanted them to see the car running, yet it was unwilling to move. I left it running so the dealer could access live data on their scan tool. By the time it got to the shop, it had been idling for three hours. I assume it continued to run (at idle speed) for the remainder of the day, even after they pushed it into the shop.
The technician’s investigation and report
On the same day after our car quit, the technician scanned the Vehicle Control Unit, and the fault code was DTC P2138 THROTTLE/PEDAL POSITION SENSOR/SWITCH D/E VOLTAGE CORRELATION. This diagnosis was on Friday afternoon, just before the technician left for the weekend. I assume the car was turned off for the weekend while they were gone.
After sitting in the shop for the weekend, for the next three business days, the technician “worked” on our car to diagnose what else might have been wrong with our car.
Here is the entire technician’s report, including the steps he performed to identify the problem after our car quit.
After our car quit, I investigated limp mode, which is supposed to limit your speed enough so that you can proceed at a very low speed and get to a safe place. When our car quit, it didn’t enter limp mode; instead, the engine RPM was restricted to idle speed (about 800 RPM), which is insufficient to move the car. Evidently, my Subaru doesn’t have a limp mode even though the technician refers to it.
What is a QMR?
I’m not sure what QMR means to this Subaru dealer chain. Typically, it refers to Quality Management Review, which is a “systematic evaluation of a quality management system (QMS) to ensure its effectiveness and alignment with business objectives and regulatory requirements”. In this case, I believe the mentioned QMR represents a business standard that will ensure a near-certain repair and maximize profit for the dealer.
The QMR does not evaluate necessary repairs; instead, it evaluates maximum value repairs for the dealer. As you probably know, I am not going to spend $10,000 to repair a vehicle that is not worth $10,000, and I don’t care that it doesn’t align with the dealer’s business objectives.
Subaru of America “cancelled” our 100,000 powertrain warranty.
When I purchased my car (used, not from a dealer), it came with a 100,000-mile powertrain warranty from Subaru of America. Subaru created this extended warranty to help improve customer confidence following a series of engine failures that occurred before my Subaru was manufactured. After our car quit and was in the shop, I was advised that, despite my Subaru having fewer than 100,000 miles, the powertrain warranty either had expired or did not apply to my issue. When our car quit, I expected the extended warranty to cover the cost of repair and fix the car. Update: On October 9, the Subaru customer advocacy department called and informed me that the warranty had expired and they would not provide further assistance, stating that they were aware that they lost a long-term customer. They knew I probably would not be purchasing a Subaru in the future.
No help from the Subaru of America customer advocacy department.
Subaru has (what they call) a customer advocacy department. On Wednesday, after I got the $10,000, I called the advocacy department to see if they would intervene on my behalf. After making numerous calls to the customer advocacy department on Wednesday and Thursday, I was finally able to speak with their representative. The representative talked to the Subaru dealer (who dropped the price to $8,000 on Wednesday afternoon) after telling them to expect a call from Subaru of America to discuss my case.
After speaking with the representative and reviewing how well the advocate performed his duties on my behalf, I informed Subaru that they should rename the department, as my advocate did not provide any assistance to me. While he understood my issue, concern, and the repair price compared to the value of my vehicle, the advocate either didn’t or couldn’t help me.
The value of our Subaru
Our Subaru is valuable to me because I can tow it with all four wheels on the ground behind my motorhome. Towing equipment attached to my Subaru increases the value to me, but not to the general non-RVing public.
The value of the special equipment required to tow our Subaru is easily a few thousand dollars above the price of the car. If I were to get a different vehicle, I would have to install the Roadmaster base plate, lighting system, and braking system. I describe this equipment and its use in the link provided above. Here is a copy of it in case you missed it the first time. How to tow a car behind an RV
This failure can occur in nearly any modern car.
In the days before modern computer-controlled cars, the accelerator pedal was mechanically linked to the fuel control via stainless steel cables. Now the cars are computer-controlled. The connection between the throttle and the accelerator pedal is not mechanical; instead, the accelerator pedal is connected to the computer, which sends the acceleration request to the throttle.
When our car quit, the most likely cause is the accelerator position sensor, which is inside the accelerator pedal assembly. It merely got old, tired, and worn out after being used for almost 100,000 miles. Of course, my diagnosis isn’t proven, but my Subaru is going to get a new accelerator pedal as soon as I return from my lap around the southwest. I didn’t replace the accelerator pedal on Saturday before our trip, mainly due to time constraints. We departed on our big trip the next day.
The price of a necessary repair
It was a big mistake and a waste of time (and money) for me to take my car to the Subaru dealer. I reached out to some friends who are mechanics, and they all said that $10,000 was “ridiculous”. One suggested that the dealer wanted to buy my car at a huge discount price and sell me a new one. I don’t necessarily buy that because usually at a car dealer, the salespeople don’t collaborate closely with the repair shop. Yet it could happen.
I think (or thought previously) that it was more likely the repair shop didn’t really want to repair my car, knowing that when the repair didn’t work, I would be back, and as soon as they touched it, they would own the repair for at least the foreseeable future.
The repair shop also stated that they couldn’t obtain a new harness immediately and that my car would be left in their lot, awaiting the arrival of the necessary parts and repairs. The dealer also refused to repair just the accelerator pedal, despite having evidence that it was the only problem. Besides that, making only the necessary repair that might fix the problem doesn’t meet the overall business goal and maximize their profit.
A replacement 2016 Subaru Forester pedal assembly is available from Subaru and has a suggested retail price of $192. It is commonly available online for $129—link to a Subaru parts dealer below. What do you want to bet that our dealer won’t sell them at anything less than $250 and then charge me an additional $200 to remove the two nuts and clip in the wire connection… but they wouldn’t do that because replacing the harness is worth a lot more to them than repairing my car by only making the necessary repairs.
About that statement, “our car quit at the worst possible time.”
Nine days before our scheduled departure on a trip around the southwestern states in our RV, our car quit and left me stranded on the side of the highway. Two possible repair days were wasted on the weekend, and then the dealer wasted three more days trying to create the maximum price repair plan. Subaru of America wasted the next two days before they told me that they wouldn’t get involved.
Now we don’t have our car and are on a major two-thousand-mile trip through the southwest. Thankfully, we have our RV and friends we can depend on. Usually, we would have our car, with our kayaks, and today we are camped at a lake where we could have used our kayaks for some exploring. Our car sits, awaiting repair.
Where is our car, and how did we get it there?
Our car is parked in a secure RV storage lot, in the same location where we stored our RV during our visit to Europe. As for getting it there, we frequently tow our car behind our RV, so when picking it up from the dealer, we used the same Roadmaster towing equipment we use to tow it behind our RV. The only difference is that we were towing the car behind my friend’s truck. I left the engine running so that we could use our emergency flashers when we were towing the car behind the truck. It worked perfectly.
Now the dealer wants to buy my car.
About that mechanic who suggested that perhaps the dealer quoted me an outrageous price for the repair because, in reality, they wanted to buy my car. It seems that he may have been correct. Before this one, I had never received an email from this Subaru dealer regarding the purchase of my vehicle.
On my previous four visits to this car dealer, this is the first time they have offered to buy it. While the evidence is circumstantial and it may merely have been a case of bad timing on their part, it suggests this may have been part of their plan all along.
Update:
After putting the car in storage while I was gone for a month, I replaced the accelerator pedal assembly myself with a new OEM one and did a Subaru “Idle relearn” procedure I learned from YouTube. Here is a link to the channel. Mr. Subaru
After 40 miles, I haven’t had any issues with the acceleration failing to respond to pedal inputs. No codes or check engine light. I hesitate to announce victory because it could fail again without warning. So maybe this is just a progress report.
Pretty soon, I will take the old pedal apart to see if there is any noticeable wear. But for now, it seems like a new pedal from the outside.
I don’t think it ever needed a new harness. Replacing the harness was for the dealer’s additional profit.
The Subaru dealer has now offered to buy my car twice.
Subaru of America Customer Advocacy called again, and again, they were a total waste of my time. They didn’t like my article. Do I trust my Subaru’s reliability or Subaru of America… how could I?
How much did it cost to repair
My total repair bill was $230 for the new pedal purchased at a different Subaru dealer. Diagnosis at my scam Subaru dealer $180. Rental car for four days $300. Total price of my finished repairs $710, so you don’t have to do the math.
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Links
A very helpful YouTube channel focused on repairing Subaru cars specifically. Mr. Subaru
Subaru of America Customer Advocacy Department
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The dealer was trying so hard to rip you off.
Ugh, sorry you are having to go through that!…
About half way through I was guessing it to be the TPS. (Throttle Position Sensor)
Have not seen one integrated into the pedal but that makes sense.
Also, since almost all Subaru models have the same power train, and therefore probably the same gas pedal, I am pretty sure that the problem has been seen previously.
The computer is probably the same in almost all of any particular year(or years) Subaru perhaps just flashed a little differently for different models.
Good luck.
It saddens me that Subaru wasn’t more interested in your repair. We have had Subarus since 1985! The current one is our 4th Outback. Subaru has always been supportive when we found it necessary to contact them. We have had very little trouble with them, of course, Terry does as much of the maintenance as humanly possible.
My first Subaru was in 1979. One time, to get the car moving in gear after the clutch cable broke, I started the car and got it moving using only the starter motor. After I got it moving, I could then shift without using the clutch. I made it all the way home without using my clutch.
Been there and done this whole deal. The Class C we had when we hooked up with you guys blew an engine at 54k miles in Minnesota. $13k and 2 months later, we had a rebuilt Ford V10 and drove back to Texas. That was when we decided to go the fifth wheel route and purchased an F-250 and a fifth wheel. We lived in that for four years and decided enough was enough, and sold both. Purchased two cars now and just do motels and Airbnbs now. We had $35k in the class C, so we had to spend the $13k.
Sorry to hear about your trouble. Planned obsolescence and all that…. Seems like it might be time for a new tow-behind, as for your calculations on repairing a car that is worth less than the repair cost. Another metric to consider is replacement cost. What will it cost to replace with like capability, and once repaired, you still have a 10-year-old car with other unknown issues….
Good luck, and try to enjoy your trip. I’ll have to tell you someday my nightmare with my Ram pickup Diesel failure that ran me $16k. LOL. I feel you.
It is SAD that you can’t trust any mechanics or shops. Not to say there aren’t good ones out there. But the general feeling is, instead of doing a great job for this customer, I need to upsell them and get the most I can out of them. It’s like they don’t care that you will never come back if they can get all the money now. I don’t know how these people sleep at night. The world is going to pot.
iWire Subaru Wiring Solutions is a specialist that offers products and services to convert from DBW to cable throttle control. It is in Lake Forest, CA.
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Scott & Tami,
I am so sorry to hear about your car problem. I didn’t know what to say except that I hope you have it resolved. I’m glad to hear about the acceleration sensor on the gas pedal, something I never knew about. I will be watching to hear if others ever have such a problem. Thanks for all of the informative emails you write on your travels, wishing you only safe ones.
Chip
Wow. How frustrating! The conundrums of life are confusing and sometimes dangerous.